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ARRL eQSL Policy

ARRL eQSL Policy
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May 29th 2014, 15:36

KB1XI

Joined: Apr 4th 1998, 00:00
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The 2010 ARRL policy regarding the use of eQSLs for any of the ARRL awards is an emphatic NO! With ever more stations worldwide using the eQSL.cc service to do their QSL confirmations in place of tradition mailed cards or LOTW, this poll is to see how many amateurs would recommend ARRL change this policy and allow eQSL.cc authenticity guaranteed QSLs to be accepted for awards by the ARRL especially WAS and DXCC.
Jun 8th 2014, 15:19

N4AAB

Joined: Jan 16th 2013, 01:39
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Digital certificates are used by many organizations. These should make it more certain that the QSL took place.
Aug 19th 2014, 15:37

N0NB

Joined: Apr 4th 1998, 00:00
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
As I see it, beyond digital signatures, the issue is the way eQSL handles incoming QSL requests. The eQSL system shows all requests for your station while LoTW does not. In this case LoTW employs a "double blind" system where only the LoTW system can see the requests made for other stations. LoTW is actually more strict than paper QSLs.

Let's say P59XYZ busts a call and uploads his log to LoTW. In this case neither the station actually worked nor the erroneous callsign will know a request is pending for them. In the eQSL system, the holder of the erroneously logged callsign does receive a request even though the QSO was not actually made with that station. Just like with paper QSLs, it is up to the station that received the request in error to do the right thing and ignore/delete/trash the erroneous request. LoTW won't even allow a potentially unscrupulous operator the choice!

Until eQSL fixes this loophole, I don't see any hope for them to be acceptable for ARRL awards.

73, Nate
N0NB.us
Sep 19th 2014, 20:19

wo9g

Joined: Jan 3rd 2014, 04:18
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Total Posts: 0
I would like to see ARRL/LoTW accept eQSL's. As a new Ham Op I found it extremely hard to find the op's in the last few states I needed to get my eQSL WAS award the other day. I found myself on the nets looking up each call sign on QRZ for the needed states to see if they logged to LoTW, it seems a heck of a lot of Hams out there don't and have a bone to pick with ARRL.
Mar 9th, 04:02

KI4FH

Joined: Jun 21st 2010, 01:34
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
If LotW were programmed to allow the creation and sending of QSL cards digitally it would be perfect. Sadly, the basic features have not grown over the years. Being a self-policing hobby, I would think we could be trusted to be honest about our QSL cards. I feel the AARL needs to either upgrade LotW to allow the digital QSL cards or accept eqsl.cc cards.
Mar 18th, 18:11

K1KOB

Joined: Apr 4th 1998, 00:00
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
Use e-Qsl for ARRL awards. Waaay back when... you were going to use them, BUT when you saw that you could make a buck.. you changed your mind.

K1KOB DXCC HONOR ROLL and Nine other DXCC awards

So.. how do I "vote" in the chart above ???
Mar 20th, 03:02

WA2WAP

Joined: Dec 4th 2011, 18:44
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
Id gladly print qsl's from ARRL instead of EQSL and give them the yearly fee if it would make a difference in getting your awards without a hassle ,as is u cant even get all 3 -QRZ,ARRL AND EQSL to agree on a way to combine logs so i can get awards.ARRL awards take months and months to receive in mail even after they say its finished.
I like to be able to show off an award when u get it not months later even if i print it myself .
ARRL please get on the same page as new hams and make it easier to get QSL cards that you will accept and combine confirmations between the 3 major ham sites for awards.
TY
WA2WAP
Apr 4th, 01:44

NV2K

Joined: May 20th 2014, 01:06
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
The survey question is a bit confusing, as K1KOB seems to indicate. As I read it, a vote of "Agree" is an affirmation of the policy to not accept eQSL, and a vote of "Disagree" indicates a preference that the policy be revisited. The remaining choices are ambiguous.

In reply to N0NB's characterization of a "loophole" at eQSL, consider this: Busted calls are easily fixable through dead-tree QSLing once a card is received and a near-match to the call is found in a station's log at a matching date, time, band, and mode. eQSL provides a similar capability that's faster, easier (at least 20 dB easier) and cheaper. Users are monitored for excessive NIL rejects, helping protect against abuse.

The double-blind nature of LotW seems more like the following scenario: Rather than to each other, cards are sent to an über-Manager, who holds all incoming cards in escrow. Each Q on each card is checked for a corresponding Q on a card from the station indicated. Only when a match is found does the über-Manager forward both cards. If one card has a busted call, both cards remain in escrow (or limbo, if you will).

Paper cards do not work this way. Should LotW be that much more conservative than paper QSLing?
Apr 13th, 16:36

AI4BJ

Joined: Sep 2nd 2003, 12:14
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
The fact that so many eQSL'ers are demanding that eQSLs be accepted for ARRL awards simply (to my mind!) affirms the high regard in which these ARRL awards are held. They are held in such high regard because of the integrity of the programs, and the rules governing the types of QSLs that are acceptable.

I'm not too familiar with eQSL, but don't they offer their own alternatives to DXCC, WAS, etc., and if not, why not? I don't see any problem with having duplicate award programs, one with rules that are easier to comply with, and one for those of us who want to know that everyone who receives an award has truly earned it.

73,
Mark AI4BJ
Apr 15th, 14:12

NV2K

Joined: May 20th 2014, 01:06
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
Quote by AI4BJ
....

I don't see any problem with having duplicate award programs, one with rules that are easier to comply with, and one for those of us who want to know that everyone who receives an award has truly earned it.


By the award received by those who have truly earned it, you refer to the eQSL awards? Or do you mean both eQSL and ARRL awards? If, as you indicate, you are "not too familiar with eQSL", you certainly would not be implying that the eQSL awards are not truly earned by those who receive them.

The requirements for eQSL awards are roughly the same as for awards based on paper QSL cards; the main difference being, of course, that instead of paper cards electronic confirmations are used. This makes it faster and cheaper to confirm, and more convenient to correct busted call signs. The faster, cheaper, more convenient feature could potentially be exploited, but users are checked for excessive NIL rejections. (Does the outgoing bureau do likewise? Of course not!) Every application for an award is inspected by an award manager.

While there is potential for abuse in any award program (I submit, even the ARRL's), good programs make abuse difficult. No award program could be perfect, even if one were to go so far as to insist on sworn affidavits by independent observers at both ends of each and every QSO.

Do you wish to characterize my eQSL awards as mere wallpaper, that I had not "truly earned" them? That seems to be what you are implying, and, frankly, I would be more insulted than I am had you not admitted what appears to be your opinion was based on a lack of familiarity.
Apr 18th, 21:13

K1KOB

Joined: Apr 4th 1998, 00:00
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
AI4BJ stated that "I'm not too familiar with e-QSL" . He should take a few mins to get familiar with the e-QSL awards program and he might see what it is all about. I have the following DXCC awards:

DXCC HONOR ROLL 339/349
DXCC MIXED
DXCC PHONE 340
DXCC CW 288
DXCC RTTY (DIGI) 146
DXCC 80 METERS 112
DXCC 40 METERS 142
DXCC 20 METERS 150
DXCC 15 METERS116
DXCC 10 METERS 259
5 BAND DXCC #2225 JAN 29 1987

e-QSL AWARDS:

eDX100
eCANADA
eWAS
ePFX300 601

Check out my station awards display on QRZ.COM. Both of these awards programs are good and you have to "earn" the wood and paper. I've been doing this for the last fifty - seven, 57 years. See you in the pileups.
59 Alabama
Ralph K1KOB
Apr 19th, 16:38

AA1PR

Joined: Apr 4th 1998, 00:00
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Total Posts: 0
ARRL seemed in my humble opinion afraid of eqsl and created LOTW. Double blind hocus pocus if you keep an accurate log its no issue & ARRL has no need to verify your QSO's or errors its your responsibility. My issue is that LOTW has killed the traditional art of QSLing to the point its almost impossible to obtain an actual QSL card.
In regards to eqsl I've stopped using it many years back because of all the bogus requests I received.
ARRL has always wanted to be the controlling figure & will never let go however harmful their control is, they seem to either not notice or dont care
RANT: who cares if you have dxcc on all bands, very insecure to boast such... go brag elsewhere contesters kill the bands so badly the average Joe wont operate
ARRL has an internal conflict in that they promote an amateur society in a collective state but promotes contests which is an (conflicting) individualistic state... end of rant
Apr 20th, 15:55

WB1GCM

Joined: Apr 4th 1998, 00:00
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
Our forums are for helping others, not for ranting. There are other web sites out there that are more appropriate for ranting.

Regarding LoTW; a major complaint our member had 15 years ago was the price of postage and the length of time it took (years) for QSLs to arrive from overseas. In some cases, cards would arrive after one became a silent key. Thus, in 2003, LoTW was created, without an increase of membership dues. Yes, there are a few steps to get set up for it, but only because some people cheat. There were many instances in which paper cards were forged in order to get an award, which were caught by qualified card checkers. The ARRL couldn't change the behavior of certain people, but they had the ability and the smarts to create a QSL system that has integrity.

The young crowd (that will be replacing us) don't care for paper. 100 years ago, my grandfather got a Model-T, but his dad stuck with his horse.

Bob Allison
WB1GCM
ARRL Lab
ARRL Laboratory
Apr 20th, 16:03

AI4BJ

Joined: Sep 2nd 2003, 12:14
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
"He should take a few mins to get familiar with the e-QSL awards program and he might see what it is all about."

Well Ralph, I took your sound advice and just spent 5 minutes clicking all the links on the e-QSL home page, trying to learn about the awards they offer, but could find very little information, other than a short list of "Latest eAwards". It appears that you have to be registered and logged in before you can find any useful information. Isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

Mark AI4BJ

Apr 23rd, 03:15

NV2K

Joined: May 20th 2014, 01:06
Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 0
To AI4BJ:

Rules for some of the eQSL awards:

eqsl.cc/qslcard/eDX100Rules.cfm
eqsl.cc/qslcard/ePFX300Rules.cfm
eqsl.cc/qslcard/eWASRules.cfm
eqsl.cc/qslcard/eCanadaRules.cfm
eqsl.cc/qslcard/eEuropeRules.cfm
eqsl.cc/qslcard/eAustraliaRules.cfm
eqsl.cc/qslcard/eGridRules.cfm

These do not require registration to view. Learn about these awards for those of us whom, as you say, have truly earned them.

73 de NV2K . .

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