ARRL

N9HTZ

Joined: Sat, Apr 4th 1998, 00:00 Roles: N/A Moderates: N/A

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No rules when contesting???????? w3jkc on 19/8/13
Quote by KG5VK
Simply put N9HTZ has an attitude issue
with anyone in our hobby that is Not either a county hunter or an OMIS member After all he has been lic. since 1988
So he knows it all and can not be convinced that what he heard on 17m was something other than what he says it was.
I am a contest OP, I served in the USAF and retired from it
I also volunteered and served as a civilian liaison for the USCG during the post Katrina aftermath at Bell Chase NAS
and my contesting experience was a very big asset to getting coordinates to the rescue desk for people that needed assistance.
When the bands get crowded use it as a reason to adapt and learn new methods that will work - Is the a reason your net does not have alternate band plans ???
Have you ever heard of someone asking if the freq is in use and no heard them, so they started calling CQ ?
I have asked many times, heard no reply then suddenly a bunch of mad net ops show their colors and say the freq is in use - Instead of
saying I asked I simply move the VFO knob 3 - 4 kc and try again
If your still hearing me 4 kc away - you either have you NB on, your filter wide open and your antenna pointed right at me
There IS room in our hobby for all of us, IF we have some compassion and ability under our thick skin to share.
Of course you are welcome to continue to only see things Your way!
By the way if there is an Emergency during crowded band conditions - State so plane and clearly you will find you have plenty of people that will shut up, listen and help when asked.
I know as I have seen it work.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK


Sir, I don't appreciate being called a liar. When people came on 17M calling "CQ Contest, CQ Contest, CQ Contest" right on top of a net that was in progress and gives a US call sign, it is not mistaken DX either. When people calling "CQ Contest" then start crowding in on either side by 0.5 to 1.0 kc, that is definitely intentional. Intentional QRM is against FCC rules. And YES, this did occur on 17M. the OMISS group goes out of their way to avoid causing or receiving QRM. When they started their net, the frequency was clear. When the contesters started moving in as I described, they searched for a clear frequency in which to move. But, guess what, The 17M band was already full of contesters. There was no clear frequency. They tried to continue their net. When the contesters kept crowding even more, they had to call it a day. But, what do I know, I've already been branded to be a lying know-it-all by real tough guys sitting behind keyboards.

I could be so arrogant as to go on and say so many unsubstantiated ASSumptions about you as you and others did about me but, I will not do that. In fact, I appreciate your service to this country. I never stated that there is no purpose room for contesting in this hobby. I merely stated an actual occurrence on 17M and then was branded in many incorrect ways for doing so. This only adds to the general belief that contesters tend to be very rude and think that they own the bands on contest weekends.

I made my original post last year. This year, I haven't heard nearly as much contesting on 17M. Most hams know that contesting isn't officially applies to 17M. Perhaps, the ARRL and other responsible contesters have informed other hams well. On contest weekends, I usually hang on 17, 15, and 12 M and find some good US and DX contacts who are doing the same--avoiding the crazy and rude contesters.

The reaction to my posting of the truth in this thread speaks volumes. I thank you all for letting my know just how rude contesters really are.

The general courtesies are:

1.First come, first serve so far as obtaining a frequency on which to operate.

2. Don't crowd in on a QSO closer than 3 kc. With the filtering available in most radios to day that could be 2 kc.

3. Don't start calling CQ on top of a QSO in progress and move to another frequency when ask to do so by participants of that QSO. (I believe that refusing to do this one actually violates FCC policy/law)
ARRL QRM'ing Maritime Emergency Net WA4YBC on 22/7/12
So, the fact that all of these operators were constantly keying up on 17M and saying, "CQ contest, CQ contest." was a figment of my imagination. While there may not be an official ARRL contest on this band, It didn't stop the contesters for doing it anyway.

I do agree with an earlier point that the ARRL is not directly responsible for the bad behavior of these operators. Perhaps the ARRL should be more forward about which bands are NOT included.
ARRL QRM'ing Maritime Emergency Net WA4YBC on 25/3/12
Quote by W3WN
Quote by N9HTZ
< snip >
However, last weekend, they started operating right on top of a 17M net that was in progress and refused to QSY after being asked. 17M wasn't included as a band to be used inthe contest but 17M was full of contestors.
< snip >
Really? Contesters on 17 meters? Are you sure it was hams operating in a contest, or was it something else... like DX'ers in a pileup for a rare station working split?

Don't suppose you can mention specific times, frequencies, or calls involved?


Quote by N9HTZ
< snip >
You have cited a clear and present danger caused by ARRL contestors that must be addressed and mitigated.
With all due respect, the MMSN has been sharing 20 meters with contesters on the weekends for decades. So with all due respect to Tom Clancy, this is hardly a "clear and present danger."

Most of those contests are not sponsored by the ARRL -- only three events (ARRL DX SSB, ARRL Sweepstakes SSB, and ARRL Field Day, which is not a contest) come to mind. This isn't an "ARRL" problem.

Is MMSN so inflexible that it is unable to adopt contingency plans in the events the band is crowded? If other groups can manage this, why can't they?


Sir, with all due respect, The QRM from contestors on the 14.300 Maritime nets was either drirectly on that frequency and/or very close frequencies, that goes a bit beyond sharing the 20M band with contestors. OK, no one can be linked to dangerous situation on that weekend because of contestors...this time.

Since the17M OMISS net had moved from its normal 18.165 and I made no contacts in my log, I can't remember the exact frequency. I bellieve that it was 18.158 (?). However, the net started at 1900 UTC and the incidents occurred throughout the net and grew continually worse. The 17M band was literally full of contestors. However, the other fellow is claiming that I'm lying about this.

I know that intentional QRM has plagued the OMISS and other scheduled nets for quite some time. Many participants have documented, recorded, and reported the incidents over a long period of time to no avail.
ARRL QRM'ing Maritime Emergency Net WA4YBC on 25/3/12
Quote by wc5b
As an ex-sailor, I do appreciate and support the MMSN. I also support radio sport as a very important tool and activity to keep ham radio alive and well and a way to keep it going strong. Every net, EVERY day lays claim to just about every chunk of SSB General portion of the band. You have a couple days a year that contesters want to do their thing, and then its the end of the world all of a sudden. Why does a net get to stake claim to frequencies? I see nothing in the rules that allow this. Contesters are restricted from participating on 17M (and the above poster that claims they were on 17M contesting, I have to pull out my BS card on that). I don't however see anything that says one can't run a net on 17M. What stops maritime net from moving to 17M when conditions warrant? If not, we just need to respect each others hobbies. Just because you do your hobby different, does not make it wrong. I know all I will here is "its been this way for decades" in reply, but if its such an important asset (in which I believe MMSN is), then someone needs to file a request for rule change to setup a 20M emergency Net freq above the adopted 14.350 (say 14.355) and only allow stations involved with this net transmit there. Or of course, try to lay claim as an emergency calling freq only +/- 3k at 14.300, but I don't see how that is in the true spirit of the current rules. Other then that, we just all need to deal with each other for a couple days a year. As a side note, I find it hard to believe that a vessel in distress would not welcome a band FILLED to the brim with stations on the very weekend it needs help. I speak from experience that it is down right tough to get into the net, and I only hear a few NCS through the day. I find it hard to imagine a contester would not be an ASSET in the rare case taht a station came up with a Mayday. Just my 4.5cents


Sir, I don't appreciate being called a liar.

To all of our amazement, they actually were contesting up and down the 17M band and parked right on top of the OMISS net that was already in progress.

So, what you're saying is when a net is in progress on a specific frequency, it is acceptable for stations to drop right on top of them and operate anyway? I guess that contrestors are so special that they don't have to worry about things like general courtesy. If the net is in prgress, the frequency is in use. Period. Walking on top of it because you don't think a net needs to be on that frequency is not only unacceptable ham behavior it is intentional QRM.
ARRL QRM'ing Maritime Emergency Net WA4YBC on 10/3/12
Many times I listen in on 14.300 just to hear what's going on and occassionally check in when I'm mobile. Last weekend, I personally witnessed several incidents of the ARRL contestors interforing as you described on 14.300 MHz. I participate in the OMISS WAS net. OMISS understands that if they can't find a free frequency, they simply cancel the net. However, last weekend, they started operating right on top of a 17M net that was in progress and refused to QSY after being asked. 17M wasn't included as a band to be used inthe contest but 17M was full of contestors.

You have cited a clear and present danger caused by ARRL contestors that must be addressed and mitigated.

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